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FSS Employee Taylor Speaks Out
- June
- 8
3:08 am Hellgate London
After reading logs from a recent Mythos chat with Flagship Studios employee Taylor, one shouldn’t be surprised at all with the mentality of the way things have gone (and are going) with the company on a whole. The chat, which was supposed to be about Mythos, got FSS employee Taylor a little hot under the collar when the discussion went down south. In a true professional manner, Taylor explained that the term “Flagshipped” was “completely out of context as is.” After someone quipped that “people who run sites like that are simply seeking attention,” Taylor agreed, saying, “Ya, their parents kicked them out when they were a teenager for not having a job. That’s how I see it. So they’ve been getting back at the working class every since!” Taylor goes on to say, “I think they fail to see how much time and effort goes into developing a game, certainly more than sitting at our computers eating cheetos talking shit about our betters like they do. They are whats wrong with game fans today. Everyone is expecting rehashes and sequels. Any game with MMO in its title immediately copies WoW according to them….Heaven forbid we try to do something unique and fun (Hellgate) and they expected a rehash of Diablo 2 with flashy 3D graphics. Sure, we could have made a Diablo style game, but why the hell would we? Apparently they think that because they played Diablo 2 for 80 hours a week that we will make Diablo 3 under a new name.”
After another person then said that all they were doing was marketing Mythos on the whole, “From the creators of Diablo II” scheme, Taylor fired back with, “Sp3tSnAz, i think you’re pretty ignorant for making that statment,” to which Sp3tSnAz responded back with, “I think Bill was ignorant with his statements though. Half the promises he made he shouldn’t have.”
[07:08] <TaylorFSS`home> !kb Sp3tSnAz go trash talk my friends elsewhere, here is not the place.
Followed by a short stint in which someone said that no one was playing the test center because they would only be playing existing builds, followed by Taylor saying, “What do I know right? I only work here,” one can see what the problem is with why the game turned out like it did. See, having an ego the size of the universe might attribute to that. If Taylor was rooted into reality, he might see that. However, since we’re apparently unemployed and just sitting at our desks eating cheetos and talking shit about their “betters” (what?), I suppose handling this civilly would be “above us.” I mean, hey, we’ve definitely said we wanted Diablo 2 3D, right? Or we said that Hellgate copied WoW, right? Oh wait, we didn’t? Huh, how about that. Actually, it seems the only things we’ve talked about are game bugs and faulty game design or when you guys cut corners.
It’s funny to see that Bill Roper isn’t the only one that thinks Hellgate is an MMO as well. Too bad it isn’t. For the record Taylor, we didn’t want Diablo 2 3D (yet you guys seem bent on copying the formula straight from the game, straight down to the Horadric cube and gambling), we didn’t want originality, we just wanted a finished product, and you failed to deliver on that. But hey, you don’t want to hear that, just like you didn’t want to hear Sp3tSnAz’s opinion. I can see where Ping0 now gets the mentality to ban anyone with an opinion that doesn’t praise Hellgate.
By the way, maybe by a way of example, you can take a chapter from Lord of the Rings Online. See, on their public test server, they have a whole system set up so you can mold your character at different interval levels, including where you can have your character in the main quest storyline, all at the behest of instant-give me quests. But yeah, I’m sure it’s too hard to designate an NPC to give you enough XP to level your character up to LV10, or LV20, or LV30, or LV40, or LV50. Way too hard to do that, yep. Or to flag your character has completed a specific act if you complete a quest from an NPC that makes it so. But yeah, what do we know, you work there. Copying everyone’s character over to the test center is definitely much more easier to do.
Paging Taylor, come in Taylor, this is reality calling. Please feed your ego a banana.
Edited: Changed the quote at the request of Ivan Sulic.
Edited: Title changed
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121 comments
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Posted by Lanthanide, on June 8th, 2008, at 5:11 am. So what do you think the damage control relating to this little incident is going to be, now? Evidently Guy still has his job, but what about this Taylor fellow? Perhaps they need anyone they can get, since everyone has been quitting, so maybe he’ll keep his job and just get a wrap over the knuckles for representing FSS in such a bad way. ZeroSugar replied on June 8, 2008 “People who don’t like our game are teenagers whose parents kicked them out of their house for not having a job and they’re now getting back at the working class.” That quote is not even close to being correct from reading the chat logs. Nor does anything he says in the chat log reflect this. Compare it to what was actually said. [07:04] people who run sites like that are simply seeking attention He obviously makes a verbal attack against people behind this site (Flagshipped.com) and not every gamer out there that dislikes their game like you would like to portray by adding your own words to it. A site mind you that is created around hating and worshipping the destruction of a game he was part of creating. In light of that i wouldn’t blame him for that outburst regardless if you are a current or past customer. i quit HGL a week ago and will not be playing it again for entirely different reasons than you. Just not enough content to fill my interest. To some extent i admire what you guys are trying to do as consumers. Other sites has been created in similar fashion. One particular site comes to mind regarding Starforce’s disastrous DRM protection on games. As yours, this site was created to make the public aware and encouraged consumers to boycott any game using starforce as a copy protection scheme. They actually managed to bring game companies/distributors to stop using it by being informative and giving factual data and information. If you are truly dedicated to your cause and want to be taken seriously you should strive for more accuracy and make it a priority to bring factual data to the table. Otherwise you just come off as having obsessive compulsive disorder with a knack for the dramatics..added in with a lot of propaganda haslo replied on June 9, 2008 Very good post, just what I’d have wanted to write if I’d have way more time and less popcorn. Unknown replied on June 9, 2008 WoW you really got agamemnon there… You are totally correct. But, Taylor FSS ” KrazyKaution” is still a flying faggot. After talking to him on a daily basis for over 2 years ++ |
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Posted by Andrea, on June 8th, 2008, at 5:17 am. Shit has just hit the fan. |
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Posted by Logan, on June 8th, 2008, at 5:24 am. quote; “and they expected a rehash of Diablo 2 with flashy 3D graphics. Sure, we could have made a Diablo style game, but why the hell would we?” those bastards sold the game on the back of Diablo2, if they had said what it was they were selling (shit), i would have spent my money elsewhere. |
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Posted by Syl, on June 8th, 2008, at 6:12 am. internet drama… |
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Posted by velo, on June 8th, 2008, at 6:26 am. no wonder. they get bitched by almost everyone. and even as HGL works now 100 of times better critics dont stop. maybe its unprofessional. but its human. Agamemnon replied on June 8, 2008 It’s human to make racial slurs against others too, but it’s also highly in poor taste and doesn’t speak highly of your maturity to know when to hold back your tongue. Vortex replied on June 8, 2008 They deserve it.Hands down.The amount of idiocy that goes in that company is appalling. Somebody should have said something about the SEA issue.That would have been comedy gold. Miasma replied on June 8, 2008 Exactly. It blows my mind how serious the kids on this site get about every tiny thing everyone at Flagship says. It’s like backwards hero-worship. And what’s with the misquoting? h0nam replied on June 8, 2008 Calling other people ‘kids’ does not make you any more mature. Please read my other comment, I do not feel like saying the same thing again. Strangelove replied on June 9, 2008 you obviously don’t get that the average age of this community is 30+ no kids here |
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Posted by Andrea, on June 8th, 2008, at 6:56 am. I feel kinda bad for Taylor. I mean, his bosses are definitely not gonna like this kind of publicity from a CM. |
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Posted by Anonymous, on June 8th, 2008, at 7:05 am. Flagship is amazingly disconnected from everything that makes a good game and loyal community. Fuck your gamers over == profit! They seem to actually think that mouthing off and spewing vitriol against their consumers will win them the day? Jesus H. Christ on a moped. Flagship should be replaced with a huge dollar sign. You produce a good game == we like it and support you. It’s pretty fucking simple Taylor. Anonymous replied on June 8, 2008 In truth I thought the Hellgate London box was pretty friggin ugly. It finally came out, I looked at it and went “Hey!!….. dude… a freakin squid? That’s…. really stupid.” |
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Posted by GiantBunny, on June 8th, 2008, at 7:08 am. “Ya, their parents kicked them out when they were a teenager for not having a job. That’s how I see it. So they’ve been getting back at the working class every since!” Oh.My.God. The most ignorant and up-himself award of the universe goes to….*drumroll*….. If he really thinks this is the case, then I’m surprised FSS would hire such an incompetently moronic and egotistical person for “Community Manager”, really. If he is just kidding, then I think Taylor is “a dirty retarded ass-hat who probably got spanked too many times as a child” (and you can quote me on that if you really like). There, I said it. If anyone wants to dispute my opinion….just remember that I’m not the one with any ties to companies in saying that statement, unlike ‘Trashy Taylor’ there. He should be fired, preferably out of a cannon into the sun, as soon as humanly possible. If FSS was a respectable company he’d be out on the street in no-time. Just a question of how ‘respectable’ FSS will be in this situation. probably not that much. Things like that are a personal matter really, and should never be ‘divulged’ to anyone like, ooh, the customers themselves. If he kept those words in his head and not let them go through his sushi-fingers, then the whole world would have been a brighter place. But he didn’t, so there goes his professionalism in one fell swoop. Vortex replied on June 8, 2008 Taylor is SERIOUS BUSINESS. Hell,its like he has more passion to blow himself up for FSS than an extremist suicide bomber doing it for G-D A Noni Mouse replied on June 8, 2008 Sadly this is not even close to the worst thing Taylor has ever done in the Hellgate/Mythos fandom, not by a long shot. He got himself banned from the IncGamers forums after some extraordinarily vile behaviour and then got employed by FSS a couple of months later. Miasma replied on June 8, 2008 Chill OUT. h0nam replied on June 8, 2008 “…and you should see the dirty things I say to my friends in IRC when I’m at home.” The point is, you are talking with your friends. It is reasonable to believe that you won’t be talking to them in a polite manner as you would with a customer. Just out of curiosity, do you call your customers ignorant while on the job? If your job takes place on IRC channels, does that mean you should be saying things that you would most probably not say to a customer through verbal communication? Sorimar replied on June 8, 2008 I wish I had a dime for every time that silly strawman is constructed. We are people who are fed up with game companies who have, over the last 10+ years, gotten worse and worse about putting out half finished, buggy products that do not live up to the hype and promises made, and then “fixing” them later with patches. This is consumer backlash, and a good thing, because it’s the only way that companies are ever going to be forced to change. It’s gotten worse, not better, in recent years. One crappy, buggy unstable fucked up game after another, after another. Enough if enough. We are not here to be ass-raped by companies who think they can get away with it anymore. We are not reveling in hate. We are trying to create a consumer backlash against abhorent practices in the gaming industry. Outright fraud in many cases. The sad thing is there will also always be people like you who gladly give them cover and enable them, making it a harder fight. But it’s a fight that the consumer will eventually win, regardless. “If you love the game so much, go to the official forums and gush over it with the other fanboys, get the hell outa here” |
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Posted by Cooper, on June 8th, 2008, at 8:45 am. What? This is rediculous. This guy is what is wrong with todays developers. If a weak concept and weak execution isnt working out, blame it on the customers. This site exists because they failed to deliver what they promised. Not the game fails because this site exists. The game is also failing hard in Korea. They actually hold 0.3% of the MMO-market, down from 4.1%. Place 38 down from 9. The game is crap. And this is NOT our fault. Its theirs alone. Im really angry now. If i ever was complaining, i did it bc i couldnt stand the fanbois, not to attack FSS. Always felt sorry for them because of their efforts going to waste over some bad concept decisions. I did not give up hope for a very long time, though i wasnt playing. This comment is outragous. I am quite excited about Mythos, but after that im not going to play. Screw you FSS. As if i depend on your games, LOL! Cooper replied on June 10, 2008 Hes just a CM? My anger fades instantly. By his talking i thought he would be one of the devs: – i think they fail to see how much time and effort goes into developing a game Sounds as if he had actually worked on HGL, lol. Nevermind then. However, I love his arrogance: ‘Yo, we could have made a Diablo style game with flashy graphics, whats the deal lol? But we didnt want that!!! Got it?’ Makes me laugh. Aside the fact that he did not develop anything for HGL, if you can capture the essence of D2 in a new game, its like the licence to print money. Ofc the opposite is true: They wanted a D3, but couldn do it. Well, good luck then FSS. |
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Posted by Cymbrogi, on June 8th, 2008, at 9:21 am. I uninstalled Hellgate a couple months ago after finishing the story. No replayability for the sake of getting to 50. Never subscribed. Considered doing founder as I bought the game on release day - am happy I didn’t. Anyway, I am amazed at how the Flagship folks seem to still have this attitude. They should be groveling at the feet of any people that still even play the game, not acting like little kids with their hands caught in the cookie jar. $10.00 a month for what???? Just proves the subscription model for a non-MMO (yes, I said that - NON-MMO!) won’t fly in the US without serious support. Patches that delete items, then bitches about no one playing on the test center as the reason the bugs get out. . . it goes on and on. wow. just wow. (and not the game - as in “amazement, surprise”) |
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Posted by omikron31, on June 8th, 2008, at 10:26 am. |
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Posted by Unknown, on June 8th, 2008, at 10:45 am. I remember back in the day, I would piss Taylor off on IRC before hellgate alpha…. And before he became a community manager for mythos. I remember that he said ” I am now a flagship studio employee and I can file harassment charges against you if you continue to talk to me.” He is the biggest faggot on the internet that I have ever known. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him fired after that statement. Very childish for a statement like that from a flagship studio employee. Everyone knows how much of a faggot he was in hellgateguru IRC. Also everyone was questioning how he could ever become a flagship employee. I was starting to think maybe he gave Bill Roper a rim job. I think instead of his complaining he should just keep his comments to his self, just like every other “MATURE” flagship employee. |
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Posted by creep, on June 8th, 2008, at 1:25 pm. Holy shit this guy is a fucking douchebag maybe if FSS didn’t fucking advertise everywhere “from the creators of Diablo” people wouldn’t have fucking expected something like or as good as Diablo but. I wonder if this is how all the FSS employees feel about the people who bought HGL. This mother fucker is what’s wrong with game studios they think they know what people want but have no fucking clue. I used to think Mythos was an alright game but with someone like that working there I won’t be touching that game anymore. My fingers are greasy from all these cheetos so sorry for any spelling mistakes. I used to be a pretty big fanboy for HGL and FSS but not anymore this has really opened my eyes to the company. This guy has such a huge ego it’s not even funny wtf has he done for the gaming word other then post on shitty forum for a beta… Trashy Taylor needs to get back to reality. |
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Posted by Anonymous, on June 8th, 2008, at 2:06 pm. Newsflash: Putting things within quotation marks means it is a direct quote. The headline of your article, therefor, is a misquote. Congratulations on your extremely journalistic site. Yeah, maybe if you mean YELLOW Journalism. Misquoting someone, whether it be misrepresenting their words, or adding words to their quote, and passing it off as a direct quote is just a crude form of Libel. And you wonder why I say your site is full of Shitmongering. You stir up trouble. You’re muckrakers. If you want to be taken seriously as “journalists”…try avoiding the negative forms of journalism that you cling so tightly to. To quote former President, Theodore Roosevelt, “In Bunyan’s “Pilgrim’s Progress” you may recall the description of the Man with the Muck-rake, the man who could look no way but downward, with the muck-rake in his hand; who was offered a celestial crown for his muck-rake, but who would neither look up nor regard the crown he was offered, but continued to rake to himself the filth of the floor. In “Pilgrim’s Progress” the Man with the Muckrake is set forth as the example of him whose vision is fixed on carnal instead of on spiritual things. Yet he also typifies the man who in this life consistently refuses to see aught that is lofty, and fixes his eyes with solemn intentness only on that which is vile and debasing. Now, it is very necessary that we should not flinch from seeing what is vile and debasing. There is filth on the floor, and it must be scraped up with the muck-rake; and there are times and places where this service is the most needed of all the services that can be performed. But the man who never does anything else, who never thinks or speaks or writes, save of his feats with the muck-rake, speedily becomes, not a help to society, not an incitement to good, but one of the most potent forces for evil.” Project_Xii replied on June 8, 2008 Lol. Totally. I post on this site because I want to be taken seriously as a journalist. So does every other pissed off customer. It’s our goal in life. *snicker snort* Anonymous replied on June 8, 2008 I was referring to people such as Agamemnon who try to defend this site’s premise, saying that their reporting is “Journalism”, not hate-filled shitmongering. Sorimar replied on June 8, 2008 Why do you care? Are you on FSS’s payroll, or just a fanboy? It’s the only logical rationales. Miasma replied on June 9, 2008 Why is everyone who disagrees with this hateful stuff a ‘fanboy’?? h0nam replied on June 9, 2008 Just out of curiosity, how did you get to this site then? ZeroSugar replied on June 10, 2008 Everybody who disagrees here is a fanboy Miasma its inconceivable to have an opposite opinion without working for FSS or being a fanatical fan. Who can beat that kind of logic. Agamemnon replied on June 9, 2008 Oh look, another worthless argument. “Oh God you used inductive inference you’re a horrible journalist everything is now dismissed because I refuse to accept the clear connection of who he is talking about!” Seriously, is this all you have, Aurien? You try to find the smallest mistakes and then amplify them ten-fold? Gotta work that magic damage control, huh? Anonymous replied on June 9, 2008 You have yet to properly identify who I am, and it’s sad. I’m not G-15, as you implied in the last time I brought your standards and practices to judgment. I’m not Aurien, as you expressly accused me of being this time. It’s amusing how wrong you are. And if you accuse me of “OMG U HIDE BEHIND ANONYMOUS.” let me ask: how are your co-workers, Gapes and Phil Hoper any different? Aurien replied on June 9, 2008 I’m not sure why you keep thinking other people are me. If I’m going to post on here I will use my name like I always have. As for this website being unbiased. Hell you can look at the recent 2.0 story to see how one sided all stories and opinions are around here. |
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Posted by georgeman, on June 8th, 2008, at 3:20 pm. Up untill this point i was still hoping that someday, some years in the future there will be playable, finished and fun single player HGL. In the time i went from official HGL web site to flagshipped, simply because you guys give more information about what the hell is actually going on. Today i have finally lost the last shred of hope i held for HGL. This game is dead and burried, even if the FFS doesnt think it is. I did start to lose all hope in the last few months, but kept comming mainly for the laughs but mayby hoping a little bit for SOME good news. following the site on daily basis i knew you would warmly welcome any good news. well flagshipped, i will still come to read great fun articles, but i have no hope or expectation for the HGL itself. (not a native english speaking guy, give him a break ) |
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Posted by David, on June 8th, 2008, at 5:47 pm. Some quick thoughts. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, a site like this doesn’t exist as an attention grab. A site like this gives a much needed alternative view point, a forum of free expression to monitor a company that treats its customers poorly. If nobody ever pointed out how badly some companies are run, we’d be living with a lot more Enrons, Sunbeams, and WorldComs. FSS, sorry to say Taylor, is currently the MMO world’s own little Enron. HGL is an inferior product, promoted by liars at the top of FSS, as a shameless money grab. The upper management at FSS lies to both investors and customers. Sure, many FSS employees are really nice people who work in good faith and deserve better, but the company is what it is, the upper management are what they are, corrupt. On another subject, it never ceases to amaze me that in any given argument in the gaming community, all sides resort to calling their antagonists young, immature, bitter, living in their mother’s basement (in Taylor’s case kicked out of the basement). It’s a universal. I wish people could see it as a common denominator and factor it out, but they won’t. As to what people wanted from HGL… I’ll mention that HGL could have been very different from Diablo, and still successful, IF it was a good game. FSS keeps lamenting that supposedly customers don’t like their game because it’s not Diablo and it’s not WoW. That’s just not the case. People WANT alternatives to WoW and Diablo and all the other games they might like, or hate. People like choices. People like variety. People like what’s new and flashy and exotic sometimes. People don’t condemn HGL because it isn’t a carbon copy of Diablo or WoW. People condemn HGL because it’s a bad game. When I say it’s a bad game, I don’t mean it isn’t fun. It is kinda fun to play. Some people can get a couple days or a couple weeks fun out of it. When I say it’s a bad game, I mean, it’s obviously, without a doubt, beyond any discussion,… broken, incomplete, deeply flawed, delivered by a company with corrupt upper management, and can’t compare remotely with its competition. Lemme put it another way. If FSS promises a car, advertises a car, insists that its product is a car, a customer pays full price for a car, then there are going to be problems when the product turns out to be a cute fun little moped that’s half broken. People are gonna have fun riding around in the moped for a little while until the denial wears off and they figure out they paid for a car but have a broken moped. It might take 2 minutes for some people, 2 months for others, 6 months for die hard fanboys, but people sooner or later figure out that making regular car payments on a half broken moped doesn’t make any sense. |
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Posted by Mountain Man, on June 8th, 2008, at 6:47 pm. And again we see the mentality from Flagship that it’s everybody’s fault but theirs. Not much of a surprise, really, since that’s what the man at the top has been saying for the last six-months, and apparently bullshit runs downhill. And this statement is particularly naive: “Heaven forbid we try to do something unique and fun (Hellgate)…” Sorry, Taylor, but that’s not the problem. First of all, Hellgate: London is not exactly unique. It’s really little more than the latest in a long line of Diablo clones that have come out over the years. Secondly, it’s really not that much fun. Let me qualify that statement: Hellgate: London has the potential to be a lot of fun, but there are too many problems with the game that end up killing that potential. To put it another way, it’s simply not a good enough game that people are willing to tolerate its problems. To put this in perspective, I’d say that Mythos has the same potential to be fun as Hellgate: London (it is, essentially, a Hellgate: London mod). The difference is that Mythos is competently designed and polished (and it’s still in beta!) and so it achieves–or at least comes closer to achieving–that potential. That is to say there are fewer things that come between the player and his ability to enjoy the game. If Flagship put as much effort into Hellgate: London as they do making excuses for its shortcomings then they wouldn’t be in the mess they’re in. |
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Posted by h0nam, on June 8th, 2008, at 7:26 pm. “Heaven forbid we try to do something unique and fun (Hellgate)” |
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Posted by fabuloid, on June 8th, 2008, at 7:29 pm. “I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, a site like this doesn’t exist as an attention grab.” Are you kidding me? You say this as you whip it out and proceed to masturbate into an epistolary torrent of narcissistic spooge. How much do you love to hear yourself whine and complain about shit you have no clue about? See that wet spot on your tighty whites? That’s how much. “When I say it’s a bad game, I don’t mean it isn’t fun. It is kinda fun to play. Some people can get a couple days or a couple weeks fun out of it.” So you’re telling me that a *game* that is *fun* iiisssss… a BAD game? Wow, how unlucky for you that you bought a game that didn’t live up to your expectations. Get over it and go play something else moron. Go finish Gears of War in 8 hours and then come back to Hellgate when patch 2 ships. Spare me your useless bitching. “When I say it’s a bad game, I mean, it’s obviously, without a doubt, beyond any discussion,… broken, incomplete, deeply flawed, delivered by a company with corrupt upper management, and can’t compare remotely with its competition.” Really? Again, wow. So shut up already then. Why do you care? Hellgate shipped 8 months ago and you’re still whining about the price of a nice dinner, like you got tricked into joining a cult and losing your life savings. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on games, books, movies that fall into the meh category, but I’m not going to start a religion about it. It’s. Just. A. Game. Jesus H Christ… posts like yours prove nothing other than you CLEARLY love to hear yourself talk, and you CLEARLY have no life outside of Hellgate. Nobody spends that much time on something that they’re not deeply infatuated with. I’ll go on cause this whole site is so full of tasty treats… “If FSS promises a car, advertises a car, insists that its product is a car, a customer pays full price for a car, then there are going to be problems when the product turns out to be a cute fun little moped that’s half broken.” No, it’s not a car. It’s a game. You pay your $49 and you play the game. If you don’t like it, then you uninstall and go play *another* game. Nowhere on the box of Hellgate does it say “This game will fill your life with meaning and purpose and usher you into fanboi nirvana.” I don’t even care if you paid for founder status. You took a gamble, tough shit. It’s pathetic and yet hilarious the amount of hater circle jerking that gets posted on this site. That fact that you all think it’s anything other than that is so cute. Vortex replied on June 8, 2008 Tell that to the players in SEA. kthnxbai. And no,please,don’t even try to explain it .You are just going to make yourself an idiot and provide free comedy to this site. Then again,you already are. Vortex replied on June 8, 2008 Tell that to the players in SEA. And for someone who keeps on saying its-just-a-game,you sure seem to be taking it all pretty seriously.So much anger.Tsk Tsk. but hey!I guess you are the sort that accept mediocrity and encourages it,especially in the gaming world. Once again,explain that to the players in SEA,who qued up for hours,paid 75 bucks for the game,promised subscription and patches,only to be left rotting with patch 0.7 ,with no news/updates/CUSTOMER SUPPORT whatsoever for 5 fucking months. The amount of ignorance you spew is just disgusting. fabuloid replied on June 8, 2008 “Tell that to the players in SEA” No, tell it to IAH and Hanbit. It has NOTHING to do with Flagship. Your disk doesn’t work? Talk to EA. Your box is empty, talk to Walmart. Can’t enjoy Shrek cause there’s a baby screaming in the movie theater? Don’t talk to Dreamworks, they can’t do shit about it. IAH and Hanbit run everything in SEA, so don’t blame Flagship for something they have no control over. Seriously. A Noni Mouse replied on June 8, 2008 It’s Flagships game and it’s Flagship who have to develop the patch for the game and it’s Flagship who could release a version of the patch that would at least bring their SP in line with the EU/US version. Mountain Man replied on June 8, 2008 “No, tell it to IAH and Hanbit. It has NOTHING to do with Flagship. Your disk doesn’t work? Talk to EA. Your box is empty, talk to Walmart.” Yep, it’s everybody’s fault but Flagship’s. Just keep bending over, son, it’ll stop hurting soon. Sorimar replied on June 8, 2008 What’s truly cute is that people like you think you are single handidly going to stop this consumer backlash which has been a long time coming and is very much deserved. You think that by attacking us with ridiculous ad-hominem attacks it’s somehow going to change our minds. You ignore the true substance of our position. You just want to piss on haters because it makes you feel better about yourself. This is simple psychology. There is no other reason to come here and post long winded tirades against us. And you call us Narcisists? Puh-lease. Get over yourself. Go enjoy the game. fabuloid replied on June 8, 2008 No, what’s truly pathetc is a handfull of whiners on a hater site that count themselves as a consumer backlash. It’s especially pathetic because FS has done nothing but try to make the best game they can, and continue to do so despite your calls for a public crucifixion. Oh wow, you get single player AND free online AND a subscription service? Maybe if they had never bothered you’d be happy? The problem is that your fundamental arguments don’t make any sense. If the game is truly as broken as you say it is, and it’s done as poorly as you say it has, then wouldn’t it require a monumental effort on the part of FS to fix it? And how would the afford to do that? You think they’ll be able to rewrite the game in a 3-month patch? Look at any single player game that comes out with bugs, and you’ll be lucky if you get even minor issues fixed inside of 3 months. If nobody is playing it, they’re not making enough money to justify doing that much work. I’d bet that they’re spending most of their time just trying to keep the thing afloat. And if they ARE making money, and people ARE playing it, then what’s the problem? So it’s not working for you guys, so go play something else? At this point, there’s nothing that can be done. It’s either going to fizzle cause nobody’s playing it, and therefore there’s no money to rebuild it (go Mythos), or it’s going to turn around and get better. There’s no way that FS is just sitting there, not caring, not doing anything, not trying to make it better. Get real. If this is a money-making scheme by corrupt, fat cat game developers (!?!) it’s the worst one in history. They should have taken their dev money and moved to the Bahamas. The whole crux of your dissatisfaction is that these guys can’t figure out a way to satisfy you. They try, and you kick them. They explain and you kick them. You know they can’t kick back, so you kick them some more. The lowest guy on the totem pole finally takes some flame bait and you scream “OMG he got… MAD… how unprofessional. Ow, ow, he poked me! He said a bad word… MOOoommmy!” You think they’re going to fire him? Hahahaha. Maybe they should just stop talking to us altogether, that seems to be what you’re after. Talk about simple psychology, this site is the clearest example of hate-mob group-think I’ve seen. h0nam replied on June 8, 2008 First, it would mean you haven’t seen much. Where has anyone said it does not require monumental effort? — It does, actually, but they’re just not putting it into the game. If they “only had subscription and none of the other stuff”, I would actually be happy. This is because I bought the game to play SP, not MP. If they didn’t have anything else other than sub, then I would’ve saved myself some money. Heck, $70 to you isn’t much is it, since you spend thousands on whatever crap you said in the other comment which I can’t really remember. Well guess what, good for you if you don’t mind buying crap. Other people are not as well off. I’m just a university student with a part-time job. Gas prices are rising, tuition fees are rising, hell the only thing coming down in price that I’ve noticed are computer parts. “No, tell it to IAH and Hanbit. It has NOTHING to do with Flagship.” It has nothing to do with Flagship, except that they are the producer of this game. Sorry I’m not too concerned with anything else except that when a whole region that is playing the game you created has no support, putting some effort into helping said gamers would’ve garnered you much respect and reputation. Instead, FSS just lets it slide and tries to pretend SEA doesn’t even exist. That is just cruel. But I guess it has nothing to do with FSS since it’s not their responsibility. Talk about putting in minimal effort. There is a way that FSS is “just sitting there, not caring, not doing anything, not trying to make it better.” They’re pretty much doing it right now. I’m real, so there’s nothing for me to get. fabuloid replied on June 8, 2008 “since you spend thousands on whatever crap you said in the other comment which I can’t really remember” Even as a University student, if you add up the money you’ve spent on movies, books, games, videos, etc over your lifetime, it will most likely add up to thousands of dollars. My point was that even $70 is a pretty good deal for a few weeks of entertainment. Of course you wish it would be better, but keep it in perspective. This is NOT Enron. “Now since you brought up the question of how they are affording that… read http://www.flagshipstudios.com/press_releases/comerica_bank_finances_flagship_studios” … so are you telling me that because FSS took out a LOAN to keep us happy, that you’re going to hate them? All that article means is that they’re not making enough money from HG that they have to borrow money in order to try and turn it around. So they’re going into debt to satisfy customer demands, risking everything, and you’re saying that they’re not trying. Tell me, what POSSIBLE motive could they have for keeping a dying game alive, if not to try and live up to their fans expectation? “Sorry I’m not too concerned with anything else except that when a whole region that is playing the game you created has no support,” So humor me… why do you think it is that SEA only had patch 0.7? I’m just curious what you think the problem is, and how you think running a game in foreign territories works. h0nam replied on June 8, 2008 If I spend only thousands of dollars within my lifetime, I would most probably be dead by now. Let me put it this way. If I had all the money that I can spend during my lifetime right now, then $70 ( I got the CE) is definitely not much. I agree with you on this point. But when you view $70 out of a $300 paycheck, then it’s completely different. Most necessity expenses I do not really need to be responsible for (such as food and shelter). Tuition is killer, and between eating out with friends and watching movies, and filling the gas tank, there’s not much left. What happened when I paid $70 to get my copy of HG:L was not a gain in “a few weeks of entertainment”, as I could not be entertained after installing the game (bugs and all). Instead, I lost in terms of opportunity cost (which is the cost of forgoing the next best alternative/choice). I could’ve bought something for my girlfriend, dinner with family, or whatever, and in the end everyone would be happier. FSS took out a loan, but is it to keep us happy? I’m doubtful on this one. The way I see it is, they are having financial troubles to keep the company running since they spent so much in advertising and promotions (browse in the forums for pictures of the promo cars). Instead of trying to keep us happy, they are trying to keep themselves afloat. I would just like to make a disclaimer here that this is just my speculation, so don’t quote me on it as truth. Regarding patch 0.7, your guess would be as good as mine. IAH/Hanbitsoft got losses from selling HG:L, and support ceased. I did not insinuate that there could be any other causes, as I actually do not know what went wrong there. Not only would you like to know, but everyone else on this forum would like to know also. But my point in that part of the post was that fine, shit happened with IAH/Hanbit, but hell we should still try to patch SEA because they are playing our game. If they had any shred of hope and respect for their own game, that is what they would’ve done. Localization (languages?) would be an issue, but that can be overcome. As you said, they took out the loan to keep us happy. If that was the case, part of that loan should be used in region(s) that are not getting adequate/any support. So far this seems to be an isolated incidence, as I’ve not encountered any gaming news before where a whole region loses out on support. If you have any to share, please show me. Running a game in foreign territories? Are you trying to tell me there is some legal matter that results in FSS not being able to patch their game? If it has something to do with publishing issues, how hard would it be to work out? FSS says I want to patch our game in your region, IAH would say No? The last part is a real question. And, ironic as it may be, I have to get back to writing my essay on SEA. I’ll be checking here for any replies, though. fabuloid replied on June 8, 2008 I’m gonna get serious here on this one, since I actually do have some knowledge on the subject. I’m speculating on the specifics, but in general, I’ve got a good idea how these things work. FSS developed the game with Namco as the publisher (meaning they got funding from Namco to make the game. Devs ususally get funding as an advance against royalties, meaning that Namco has to get paid back from HG:L revenue before FSS sees any money.) Somewhere along the line, EA came into the picture… I’m not sure what happened with Namco, why EA got into the fray. EA and Namco’s logos are both on the box, and everything recently has been EA in terms of distribution and marketing. BUT, in Asia, it’s Hanbit, IAH, and The9 (in China). What this usually means (as in the case of WoW in China), is that the distributer in the foreign territory takes over all marketing, distribution and operations. That means pack the boxes, put it in stores (or deliver it online), set the pricing, set the online payment model, run the servers, run the CS… everything. The only thing the developer is responsible for is delivering the goods. The local publisher/operator decides how it all goes to the market. Now, if IIRC, HG:L isn’t even commercialized in SEA. I could be wrong… last I heard was that they weren’t taking payments for online yet. To me, this smells like problems on their end. I have some guesses: 1) THey’re having tech issues. Unlikely that this would delay things so bad. 2) They look at how much backlash there’s been in the rest of the world and are reluctant to start charging money for online. Maybe they’re waiting for patch 2? At some point they’re going to look at their potential revenue against the potential cost. Maybe it’s not worth it to them? Who knows. Point being is that FS has the patches. They don’t do the locaization, the distributer in the territories does that. If a patch that is available everywhere else is not available in a territory (like SEA), then 99.9% that is due to some issue out of FSS control. To put it again, the devs don’t pay for marketing, they don’t pay for PR, they don’t pay for distribution, they don’t pay for operations (FSS seems unusual in that they run Ping0… not sure how that all works out on the backend, maybe EA pays? Maybe it comes out of sub revenue?) All the dev pays is for making the game, usually with money borrowed from a publisher. The dev doesn’t see dime one (in most cases) until that money gets paid back. So… looking at HG sales, it’s likely that FSS has not paid that back. Any modern game easily takes 10 - 20 million to make (I’ll bet a game like WoW took upwards of 100M). That’s a lot of boxes and a lot of subs to sell. It’s very very unlikely that FSS has even seen a cent from HG. Anyway, I’m in the biz. There are a lot of developers out there playing it safe and making cookie cutter games. There are a few that are making great games. There’s less and less that are making online games for the PC, cause you have to go up against the WoW elephant that’s got 3 (or whatever) years and a bajillion dollars to compete with. FS tried, and (as we see), it’s a hard nut to crack. I dig when Bill said that they shot too high, and yes it sounds like an excuse. But he’s right… they DID shoot too high. Hell, they came from Blizzard with unlimited pockets, so they probably thought they could do it again. I want to see them succeed. I’m rooting for them. I want to see them get through this and give us the kind of games we’re all wanting to see. I’ll bet they’ve learned that the landscape has changed since Diablo2! Seriously, there’s nothing out there that looks like Hellgate. It fell far short of what I expected it to be.. but hey, it ain’t no Tabula Rasa! I don’t see no hater site for THAT POS. I love action RPGs, and I want to see more of em. I’m hoping that Mythos and whatever else they do will be an improvement. ANd I’m not apologizing for them, I just have a good idea of what’s probably really going on, the way the system works. The reality of it is that there’s probably no easy solution to the HG problem. Game doesn’t do well, publisher goes away. Publisher goes away, money goes away. In the old days of boxed games, well.. that was that. Go do another box game. In the online space, the question becomes how much longer do they keep a losing proposition alive? How much money do they put into it? Can they turn it around and have it pay for itself? Can they convince their partners to back them? EA is not known for it’s charity. Everything I’ve read online points to this scenario. Even that programmer’s blog paints a picture of devs discouraged by a game that is having a hard time turning around. Reading the (new) develpoer blog, I totally get that Bogustus is frustrated. He seems like he’s working his ass off, and just doesn’t know what else to do. If they don’t have any money coming in, they can’t hire new devs… they don’t have enough manpower to redesign the game. It’s not even doing well here in the US, so how much money should they spend on us? Should they go broke trying to fix it, or cut and start fresh on something else? Ugh, all I got to say is god bless em. I’d hate to be in their shoes, but I totally hope they pull through. I just get so fucking fed up when I see people ganging up on them for stuff that is almost certainly out of their control. Everyone is your friend when things are going well, and then they bail when things go south. That’s not just true for you all (players), it happens on the money side too. h0nam replied on June 9, 2008 First, I would like to say that I thank you very much for posting in a coherent and levelheaded manner. I actually have much respect for people who can/will do that, and I’m not just talking about you, but other people that I’ve seen on this website as well, whether they are for or against FSS. Second, after reading your post, and, if it is true to some degree, then I can see where you are coming from. On the other hand, I still fail to see how FSS can just sit there and don’t mention anything about it. Sure, it would seem to be out of their hands, but in the end it is their product, and this is the internet after all. If, like you said, FSS has the patches, then why do they not put them up for SEA on the official website (hellgatelondon.com). This is what I mean by putting in the effort. I can hardly imagine that IAH would sue or do something drastic due to a company trying to give their customers support. After thinking about it, the only conclusion I have about SEA is that IAH/Hanbit are trying to end HG:L’s life as soon as possible, and stopping the patches would be the most direct way. Buggy game with no patch means no more gamers, which in turn means that servers can close. But lets not talk SEA here for a moment. How about HG:L SP in North America? The SP patches come much later after the MP patches. From what I’ve read, the code is different for the two gamemodes, but errors in the SP client after the patches are consistent with the ones found in MP. So what is the explanation for this? I know this was not the topic that we were discussing before, but I think the general idea is still the same, and that’s why I pose you this question. Anonymous replied on June 9, 2008 “On the other hand, I still fail to see how FSS can just sit there and don’t mention anything about it. Sure, it would seem to be out of their hands, but in the end it is their product, and this is the internet after all. If, like you said, FSS has the patches, then why do they not put them up for SEA on the official website (hellgatelondon.com). ” Unfortunately, that’s not the way it works. HBS or IAH or the9 has complete juristiction over how the product gets distributed in their territory, and that includes digital. It would be the equivalent of Hanbit shipping boxes over here to sell them in WalMart (EA has rights here). And also, I’m sure that FSS can’t say anything about it contractually. It’s like… say… oh I’m stretching here. You know how everyone’s waiting for the new iPhone? Well they’re made overseas in some factory, but that factory would catch shit for revealing any details about the device. FSS is like the factory, and IAH is like Apple. That’s a totally strange analogy I know, but you get the idea. I’m sure FSS would love to explain, and I’m sure that there is a lot of talking back and forth. And from what I hear, HGL is doing pretty well in Korea. My Korean friends say that over there they all love FSS, but hate Hanbit… cause of how much they charge, and server crashes. Vortex replied on June 9, 2008 http://www.gxleague.com/league/gallery.asp?id=124&Start= I was there,that line lasted a few hours. The launch was a success in SEA,and that was only in Singapore.Hell,even the brothers were there. However,there were several issues that brought about its downfall. 1.We had to wait 4-5 weeks to Patch 0,by then we were essentially playing with beta code,from the dvd.LITERALLY.We could only level our characters to 22. http://forum.iahgames.com/hellgate/showthread.php?t=1887 http://forum.iahgames.com/hellgate/showthread.php?t=2408 And couple that with an impending wipe,which thankfully did not take place.From the second link,FSS,Hanbit and IAH were in very close working relationship.Your point about shipping and dumping the responsibilities to the publisher is absolutely moot.Even Roper gave us some heads up,promising future updates. http://forum.iahgames.com/hellgate/showthread.php?t=2662 And subscription was planned.It was the main hook for many people.After all,we had 2 months “free” subscription.One came in the box,the other as compensation for the wipe “scare”.The other minor rewards were some useless items from the Fawke’s Event. http://forum.iahgames.com/hellgate/showthread.php?t=3569 By now,will all the piss ups,the player numbers online in SEA was dwindling from 2500 to 1500++ or so. 2.Of course,Ropers promises never came to pass,like every single thing that he says.Patch 0.7 finally got implemented,but the sub stuff were not available to us. By now the player number was dwindling around 800-1000. 3.So,IAH decided to try salvaging the game with the Red Portal Event. http://forum.iahgames.com/hellgate/showthread.php?t=8326 Notice the “preview” of multi player content?MAny of us thought,”Finally Patch 1! Stonehenge! Yay!” Christ Almighty,it turned out to be the sub stuff from……Patch 0.7.They booked a popular nightspot(Ministry of Sound) just to showcase the miserable function of the Cube and Hardcore Mode.Of course some goodies were given,one being 1 month’s preview of the 0.7 subscription stuff. Of course ,nobody could give a two shits and the the number dwindled even further…to no more than 30-100 players. After that event,there was no news/updates about anything else.Hell,after Roper’s “apologies” about Patch 0,there were zero updates from FSS. 4.Players have actually gone down,to the IAH office in Singapore to ask the CEO ,”What the fuck is going on?” In short,they can’t do anything because Hanbit AND FSS are not letting them.For whatever the reason was. IAH can only do so much to try to keep the servers up with events and competitions,but without direct support from the developers themselves,ANY game will tank,let alone FSS. 5.Retailers have recently been stocking up on US editions of the game here in Singapore.Some players ,with forlorn hope of greener pastures in the US servers,bought that POS again,only to be kicked out of the subscription page and be redirected to IAH when registering. Nice,fuck us with a shoddy launch and miserable support and with a carrot-stick-approach sell us the US copies in SEA,only to not be able to register with our SEA IP.Best fucking scam ever. You know NOTHING.This is just not a “game”,its us being very very very disappointed with the lackluster developer and management decisions of the company.We were not demanding a perfect launch,but heaven forbids,was it so hard to actually ask for some common sense ,more so from Blizzard pedigree? At its core,HGL has the makings for a brilliant evolutionary game not revolutionary.Many of us were fine with that.I am extremely angry about the whole SEA issue,but at the same time many of us in SEA are just disappointed with Roper and his gang. fabuloid replied on June 8, 2008 “You ignore the true substance of our position.” The true substance of your position, from what I can see, is that *you don’t like a game* and that FS has not lived up to your expectations for fixing it. That’s a fair position as it stands. Extending from that, is a lot of self-fulfilling frustration and anger directed towards a company that is trying very hard to live up to those expectations, in the face of dissapointing sales and revenue. “You just want to piss on haters because it makes you feel better about yourself. This is simple psychology.” Yes, pissing on haters is indeed cathartic, as you are well aware of from pissing on fanbois. It’s the modern guilty pleasure of annonymous internet posting. AND “There is no other reason to come here and post long winded tirades against us. ” Yes, despite the pleasure I derive from posting long-winded tirades, there is this reason. I like Flagship. I like the work they’ve done at Blizzard, I like having them in the industry as game developers, and I want them to stay around and learn from their mistakes. I’m looking forward to patches and what happens with Hellgate, and if Hellgate goes away I’ll look forward to what they do in the future. I’m not going to get mad and demand that they grovel to appease my fanish ego. I’m going to allow them to learn and grow and make better games in the future. Since I like them, I’ll defend them, that’s the reason. I’ll post tirades cause it’s fun. Honurot replied on June 8, 2008 So anyone who disagrees with you, FSS and their handling of the game and posts about it on a site that allows them to do so without fascist backlash is automatically a hater in your opinion? And you need to read more of the site, the majority of the people here love the game, they just don’t like FSS’ handling of the game and their customers on various fronts. You would do well not to generalize, it adds more validity to your viewpoint and argument. Vortex replied on June 8, 2008 Ok,we get it.You like mediocrity. =) No,really,humor me about the SEA issue.I want to see how blind the fanbois can be. Mountain Man replied on June 8, 2008 Honestly, I can’t even begin to understand what Flagship has done to engender this kind of loyalty. Why are people so eager to defend a company that lacks integrity and creates mediocre products? It’s downright baffling. fabuloid replied on June 9, 2008 “Honestly, I can’t even begin to understand what Flagship has done to engender this kind of loyalty. ” Because I cannot recall the last time a new developer has tried to do as much with a game right out of the gate. I was so excited about HG:L, and even though I’m dissapointed in the result, it was CLOSE. I can’t even think of any other games out there that got me as hopeful. I ask myself the same question on the flip side… what has FSS done to engender this much venom? IMO it’s because the hope was so high… Clearly they tried too hard to do too much, but damn… I hope they keep trying. Just what the industry needs is independent devs like FSS to die on the vine, so we get more me-too games pumped out by giant corporate machines. To use the car analogy, I wouldn’t be as upset if they had tried to make a Hyundai and missed, but they tried to make a Veyron and fell short. I just hope they go for Mark 2. There’s nothing mediocre about what they tried to do. Valtonis replied on June 9, 2008 “Because I cannot recall the last time a new developer has tried to do as much with a game right out of the gate.” they did so much cos the game was unplayble out of the box. and to the people who said that FSS has got nothing to do with SEA version. a good developer wou;d be a company like CD Projekt Red, the company behind The Witcher. “IMO it’s because the hope was so high…” the hopes were high because they made it high. “Just what the industry needs is independent devs like FSS to die on the vine, so we get more me-too games pumped out by giant corporate machines.” yes, what this industry needs is more money hungry, useless developers who use false advertising to con people out of their money with a mediocre product and crap support. not to mention getting blamed for the product being crap ’so we get more me-too games pumped out by giant corporate machines.” at least the “me-too” games pumped out by the giant coporate machines are playable and most of them don’t get false advertisement. to go along with the car analogies, it is ok for them to make shit cars that kills 99% of whomever drives them because they are trying to make it better? Mountain Man replied on June 9, 2008 “Because I cannot recall the last time a new developer has tried to do as much with a game right out of the gate. I was so excited about HG:L, and even though I’m dissapointed in the result, it was CLOSE. I can’t even think of any other games out there that got me as hopeful.” O.K., so you’re delusional. You don’t care about the end result so long as a game makes you “hopeful”. Me? I’d much rather spend my hard earned money on a game that actually *delivers*. “I ask myself the same question on the flip side… what has FSS done to engender this much venom? IMO it’s because the hope was so high…” Well, it all started when Flagship told its beta testers not to worry about the myriad of problems in the beta because their in-house build was “weeks ahead” and by implication a more polished product. This, of course, turned out to be a bald faced lie. Then you have the fact that the subscription service was a waste of money for at least the first 3- or 4-months (and it arguably still is) given Flagship’s utter incompetence with rolling out new content (framerate killing flame effects everywhere is sure worth $10, ain’t it?). And of course there is Flagship’s almost total disregard for their single player customers, with Bill Roper even going so far as to tell single players that if they want regular patches then they should just suck it up and play online, and Bogustus recently telling us that providing quality support for single player was not “profitable” for the company (in other words, they couldn’t charge per patch like they do with the online game). And let’s not even get into the SEA situation, which has effectively been abandoned by the company. Then there is the stubborn arrogance that pervades the company, with Flagship wanting to blame everybody but themselves for creating a failed product, even going so far as to blame the consumers for having “unrealistic” expectations when it was Flagship’s very intentional marketing strategy that created those expectations in the first place! And so on. So whatever vitriol comes their way is expected and well deserved. “Clearly they tried too hard to do too much, but damn… I hope they keep trying. Just what the industry needs is independent devs like FSS to die on the vine, so we get more me-too games pumped out by giant corporate machines.” No, actually, what we need are independent developers *with integrity*. The *last* thing we need is another “rock star” developer that serves up shit on a stick and gets angry when everybody doesn’t call it a popsicle. Logan replied on June 9, 2008 i can’t even imagine how much more horrible HGL would be in single player(i won’t even try it), but yeah they were flagshipped as much as SEA imo. they should have had the balls from the start to make it an online game only, might have actually saved the game in the end.. funny that. wait.. who am i kidding, it would still suck. Blitz_SG replied on June 10, 2008 Well said, Mountain Man. fabuloid, you should really start keeping your comments to yourself. Because you are one of the VERY few who still believe in FSS. We should show some sympathy to fabuloid too for several of us were once fanboys, until FSS proved to be the abbreviation for F**king Stupid Studios. Among all the white sheep, there are bound to be some black sheep. At this site, the black sheep are the ones sailing on board a ship. The white ones have learnt how to swim and found greener pastures elsewhere. |
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Posted by Honurot, on June 8th, 2008, at 8:39 pm. I agree somewhat with creep’s mentioning of the misquote. The quotation marks should be taken away because it can be misleading to some people by them thinking that it’s a direct quote from the chatlog instead a summarization of what was said. Most other people would go in to those logs to find that exact thing that was quoted only to find it to be otherwise and may (if not already) cast a rather harmful light upon the site’s ability to quote someone properly thus degrading its integrity to outside viewers. So yeah, take away the quotes and replace with, say, italics. If someone complains about flagshipped.com misquoting someone then their argument would not hold any water due to technicality alone. |
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Posted by creep, on June 8th, 2008, at 10:01 pm. I didn’t mention the misquote that was below my post the comments are all buggered up on this page I can only tell who posted replies it’s hard to tell about regular comments. Honurot replied on June 8, 2008 Uhm, I was talking about the quote at the top of the article that you mentioned. I’m not quite clear on what you’re talking about now. |
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Posted by Sorimar, on June 8th, 2008, at 10:21 pm. When people ask why we continue to post on the official forums if we hate the game so much, the implication is we are fools for doing so.. obsessed and out of control. And so we have a private place here in which to vent, away from the official forums. And yet, these same types see no contridiction in coming here and attacking us. After all, they are now simply going out of their way to hunt down people who don’t like the game and flame and attack them. It’s exactly the same thing. If they really didn’t care about us, they’d ignore us. But to go out of their way to come here and try to “put us in our place” demonstrates extreme fanboism and possible sock puppetry for FSS employees. No “normal” person cares enough to do so. The same logic that supposedly precludes haters from having any business posting on the official forums any longer also precludes people from coming here, out of their way, to attack us. |
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Posted by Sorimar, on June 8th, 2008, at 10:36 pm. The “logic” behind the question of “If you hate the game so much, why do you still post here?” is that somehow haters are obssessed, out on control shit-mongering trolls. Yet that same logic can be applied to anyone who comes here to rabidly attack us for our opinions. It’s one thing to defend the game on the official forum. It’s another thing to go out of your way to come here and start shit up, trying to put us in our place so to speak. It demonstrates the same level of obsession and shit-mongering that we are accused of. Reserved for the likes of extreme fanboys, or FSS employee sock puppets. So called “normal” people don’t give two shits. This backlash is almost unique in gaming. While there is always a contingent of negative types for any game, I can’t remember anything like this kind of a movement (or even close) on previous titles except for maybe Battlecruiser 3000AD, which Derek Smart brough on himself (irony?). When you accept the fact that this backlash is real, there are only two logical conclusions to reach as to why it’s happening: 1) FSS/HG:L attracted the largest overall group of vitriolic and hateful sociopaths in the history of gaming. 2) FSS made a ton of mistakes and pissed of customers who are sick of being pissed off in this manner and decided they have had enough. I guess it’s more comforting to assume it’s number one… For some people. fabuloid replied on June 9, 2008 “It’s one thing to defend the game on the official forum. It’s another thing to go out of your way to come here and start shit up, trying to put us in our place so to speak.” You seem surprised that this site is starting to show up on the larger radar? I don’t see it as starting shit up at all, from where I sit it looks like there was already a shit party in progress. I honestly don’t get what this site is really “about” other than to be a repository for shit against FSS. I see a few token “well the *might* have done ok here… but looks like they’ll probably fuck it up again”, but mostly it’s a lot of *whee* high-five! FSS going down! I get that y’all are pissed off, I just don’t know what’s the purpose. If it’s venting, then fine, call it venting. But don’t be surprised if folks show up and speak the other side. Maybe I’m missing the point. From what I’ve seen it looks like a good old fashioned witch burning. “2) FSS made a ton of mistakes and pissed of customers who are sick of being pissed off in this manner and decided they have had enough.” SO what is exactly that you *want*? For FSS to go under? I doubt it will happen. For them to listen to you? Well what specifically would you want them to do at this point? Valtonis replied on June 9, 2008 “It’s one thing to defend the game on the official forum. It’s another thing to go out of your way to come here and start shit up, trying to put us in our place so to speak.” People would and they have and what happened. their threads got deleted and they got banned. SO what is exactly that you *want*? For FSS to go under? I doubt it will happen. For them to listen to you? Well what specifically would you want them to do at this point? i want them to cease to exist and anyone who is connected to the decision making at FSS to not even get another job in the gaming industry ever Matri replied on June 9, 2008 Well, patching us out of this hellhole that is SEA would be nice. Oh, and don’t give me that shit about why we aren’t telling them. Kinda hard to do when they reject our completely legal regionalised CD Keys, thus preventing us from registering on their forums to post ANYTHING… h0nam replied on June 9, 2008 Patching SEA should be one of their highest priorities. I do not know of the legal matters (if there are any) concerning the absence of the patches, but I believe that it would be possible to work something out if they tried. Also, let’s not forget about the single-players here. Bogustus says that we are not helping the company. Well, we are not using up your bandwidth and server space either. There’s give and take to playing in SP, and I’m surprised that buying the game is not enough to warrant support. Blitz_SG replied on June 10, 2008 FSS Management : Gentlemen, I deeply appreciate your endurance and hard work for the past months. Now as we embark on another journey together and make HG:L the epic game of the year, if not of the century! The upper management has discussed and we have decided to make a single player mode along with the multiplayer mode for HG:L. This would impress the consumer market and display FSS capabilities globally. And remember, FSS capability is YOUR capability too! FSS Team : Sounds like an excellent idea! Let’s disperse for lunch now. Sushi anyone? *After lunch* FSS Team : Some of us have r |
ZeroSugar replied on June 8, 2008
“People who don’t like our game are teenagers whose parents kicked them out of their house for not having a job and they’re now getting back at the working class.”
That quote is not even close to being correct from reading the chat logs. Nor does anything he says in the chat log reflect this. Compare it to what was actually said.
[07:04] people who run sites like that are simply seeking attention
[07:04] ya
[07:04] their parents kicked them out when they were a teenager for not having a job
[07:04] thats how i see it
[07:04] so they’ve been getting back at the working class ever since!
[07:04] lol
He obviously makes a verbal attack against people behind this site (Flagshipped.com) and not every gamer out there that dislikes their game like you would like to portray by adding your own words to it. A site mind you that is created around hating and worshipping the destruction of a game he was part of creating. In light of that i wouldn’t blame him for that outburst regardless if you are a current or past customer.
i quit HGL a week ago and will not be playing it again for entirely different reasons than you. Just not enough content to fill my interest.
To some extent i admire your passion for creating this site as a consumer making people aware of a bad product. Another site comes to mind regarding the disastrous DRM protection called starforce http://www.glop.org/starforce/. As they did making the public aware they created so much exposure that game companies/distributors stopped using starforce as a copy protection software in their products. this would not have happend if not for a few individuals willing to put the dedication into their sites and their reports.
If you truly want change you should be a little more precise and accurate in your quotes/findings/reports if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise you just come off as spewing hate and propaganda without being taken serious
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ZeroSugar replied on June 8, 2008
Sorry for the double posting, you can delete one of them of your choice. Had some problems with the editing.
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Agamemnon replied on June 9, 2008
Uh no, the quote is entirely accurate. We are people that aren’t satisfied the game, therefore when he claims that anyone affiliated with the site is what he quoted, he is indeed basically saying that ANYONE who doesn’t like the game is what he said. It’s called inductive inference.
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ZeroSugar replied on June 9, 2008
I get it..you are a dissatisfied customer and a current/former HGL gamer. However not everyone who hates a game or quits because its a massive fail creates sites like these even when then they lost x amount of money. That takes a certain kind of individual good or bad ..as such he can single you out without drawing in or even referring to any other disgruntled gamer that never goes to this site. I believe thats what he did. If you choose to read it any other way there is nothing i can say that will change that. Just as fanbois sometimes wear blinders so does the other side it seems. You are doing a lot of what the other side does..choose to see and hear what they want to.
I can’t see how you can successfully spin that around to incorporate him saying it about every single dissatisfied HGL player out there.
All i am reading is that people behind hate-sites like these has been kicked out of home for not having jobs and as such hates the working class. Not at one point did i feel targeted even though i got screwed over like everybody else. But i can see if you are pissed off enough at a company (for good reasons i’m sure) that you will dissect and sometimes mold things into your fit to meet your objectives.
But wait it gets better….
I just caught this on the forum as a response to this from you
“”Oh my God Agamemnon you substituted players when he clearly said the people of your site! And I will not use inductive reference to believe that the people of this site are people who are dissatisfied with the game because that would destroy my only argument against you! So anyways, the whole article is now discredited!”
These guys are going to fail their introduction to logic courses when or if they get to college.”
So now you are insulting people who has a different view than you. Granted you don’t work in public relations and i/we are not your customers. But the level of maturity there kind of resembles that of Taylor’s doesn’t it?. You did make this site to be taken serious right? First rule don’t insult people reading or offering a different view if you want to try and win people over or make them see your point.
All i am saying is. As you’re hunting for your daily news to put up on your site about HGL, that you make it accurate if you want to be taken seriously. Let people decide and judge the content as it stands. Don’t mold it with personal interpretations and i for one would take it more serious.
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Agamemnon replied on June 9, 2008
The logs are there to make your own assessment. However, this is far from “you see this because of who you are.” I’m glad that you’re not offended by this. Truly, you’re the first person who has claimed they were dissatisfied with the product and said they weren’t offended by this. So, truly, congratulations. I can use the same argument though and say this is what you believe.
This is not a hate site. I wish people who said that actually took the time to read in to the purpose of why we do what we do. Results get done when we light a fire under someone’s ass. If Flagship Studios’s collar is getting a little tight then I must say they’ve earned it rightfully so. There are serious repercussions when you do what you do in the gaming world that is widely considered an atrocious first. We here have done well enough making everyone aware of the antics of the company. But we also see through the gritty lies through their teeth. The damage control from Guy’s blog mysteriously disappearing minutes after we posted it, followed by two days later with developers now posting “blog updates” on the forums, which are sarcastic enough (”I ate lunch.”).
The point is this gets under people’s skin, and this more so from the fans than anyone else, because they see us as this giant obstacle that keeps hindering Flagship Studios. But I suppose therein lies the problem. See, Flagship Studios blames everyone but their selves for their problems and the fans seem to agree. The numerous reviews, the numerous articles from gaming media websites, the severe drop of the community after launch–these are all things the fans like to ignore and say, “Well I like it.”
You know, I’m pretty sure plenty of people like some pretty crazy ideals back in their youth as well–back before they opened their eyes to see the bigger picture. That is what we do here and have been doing for quite some time. Taylor here called out everyone here, so my input was more than deserved, whether or not for someone else to formulate their own opinion. Are you saying you would not come to the conclusion that this man has an unbelievable ego? Or maybe we can play it off like fans did for Guy and just say he was “depressed” and that the article was just out of “desperation.”
People keep talking about change with Flagship Studios, but when this keeps happening, it’s hard to actually believe that.
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ZeroSugar replied on June 9, 2008
You can indeed say that this is what i believe. But i am not running a news coverage site dedicated to report about a games failure. As such opinions and personal interpretations should be kept out unless i completely missed the boat and all your intent is to show that this is a personal crusade between you and flagship and that most of us shouldn’t get involved in.
As for him having a giganormous Ego sure..is he a prick ..sure..should he even be working in this field..probably not. I am not here to defend him or HGL. If that’s how my posts come across then i failed to reach you. Believe it or not i support what you are doing. Just not your recent piece of news that in my opinion you tainted and twisted with the obvious reason and motive of getting people riled up.
If you are going to add your own interpretation don’t put it as gospel or even to be correct.
h0nam replied on June 9, 2008
Flagshipped is a news site, and although it seems that its only purpose is to spread negativity on HG:L and FSS, it does far more than that. In actuality, Flagshipped is presenting news on the game and the company that is by far more concise, detailed, and of interest to the HG:L community than the news that you can find on the official website, especially regarding issues with patches. One example of something that is of interest to the whole community (and not just Flagshipped) would be the recent blog post by Guy. Also, this is a place where we can freely discuss (and I use the term discuss, not argue, but that’s just me) the game without some jackass deleting our posts every other minute.
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Agamemnon replied on June 9, 2008
Explain to me where I have inserted my opinion. Go ahead. Because all I see is the argument that since Taylor started it off by addressing ‘the people who run that site’ and then proceeded to talk about ‘people’ and ‘gamers.’ Just for future reference, everyone that contributes a discussion to this site is a participating person that “runs” the site. More than half of the news we post was actually sent to us by someone else who picked it up. So even then it still stands that Taylor was childishly insulting ANYONE that was critical towards the game. You even saw it when Spetznaz was trying to make a point and Taylor kicked him out of chat for speaking his OPINION.
I seriously don’t understand people. There is no issue here. There is no “amplified” or “over exaggerated” journalism going on here. The guy was blatantly ignorant, arrogant, egotistical, and insulting and yet people are finding ways to defend him. “Well, that’s just him.” I’m sure that’s what Saddam’s friends said about him as well. Or maybe Manson. Or maybe Hubbard.
I am also well enough able to add in my rebuttal to some simpleton who pulls out some of the most childish excuses and arguments against critics of a game. Ping0 does indeed ban people or delete posts that are critical against the game. I have seen it happen, I have experienced it happen, and it still goes on. Their way of professionalism is to actually mark a post of yours as “trolling” (funny that I see any other gaming company with a professional hired forum moderating staff use grown up words like “offensive” or “disruptive”) and when you contest it you don’t get a single response back.
There is no secret conspiracy here. This is open hunting season for the deer that put themselves in harm’s way. All we’re doing is pointing in the direction of the deer. And you know what? The game meat is more than able to get out of the reticle if they would just learn, but they don’t, so until then, I will continue to do exactly what I have been doing the whole time, which is reporting on the news that I find. If you don’t like my opinions you can simply skip through the article and dig through the chat logs yourself, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
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ZeroSugar replied on June 9, 2008
I would explain it to you but it has become apparent that you are only interested in hearing from people that pats your back and agree with what you say. Anybody else is a fanboy and should immediately be dismissed. Why does that sound familiar..oh wait we are seeing the exact same thing from Flagship. That kind of ends any intelligent discussion we might have had on the subject. Your comparisons between a FSS Employee and a Serial Killer and a dictator who was responsible for mass genocide makes you so over the top i can’t believe that anybody takes you serious at this point.
I will try and get another stab at it but by now you are probably so pissed off i pointed a very obvious mistake out to you that you are deaf to anything i have to say. But i will give it a go
“People who don’t like our game are teenagers whose parents kicked them out of their house for not having a job and they’re now getting back at the working class.” — He never said that nor did he insinuate it. I am fully aware of what he said later on..Here is where he starts talking about gamers in general..not earlier not later
TaylorFSS`home> they are whats wrong with game fans today
TaylorFSS`home> everyone is expecting rehashes and sequels
TaylorFSS`home> any game with MMO in its title immediately copies WoW according to them.
Anything said prior to that was directed at the creators of flagshipped.com and its supporters. Again you could argue he also means me since i say i support what you are trying to do. but then again if i engage in such activity i don’t expect to be liked by the company i am trying to thwart nor would i expect a polite tone.
You can argue that he is talking down to gamers in general and i wont dispute it. But that is a LONG way off from what your headliner reads.
Like saying “Those complaining customers is what’s wrong with this business today. They don’t know quality and originality when they see it.. all they want it the same ol same ol”
in contrast to “anybody who doesn’t like our product is a loser”
What he said was mildly offensive at worst in contrast to the picture you are trying to paint.
You and i both know that there are plenty of lazy readers out there that will just read the highlights and not click on the chatlog which i am betting you were counting on. You are basically manipulating the story you found by creating your own version just to get a desired reaction. At worst you are telling the readers how they should interpret it. That may be smart journalism ..i call it cheap tactics ala what FSS pulls.
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Agamemnon replied on June 9, 2008
Seriously, what ever helps you sleep at night, Aurien. Don’t use logic. Don’t use inferential induction. Ignore that part in Logic 101 if or when you get to college.
As far as I’m concerned I’m done with the crowd that’s pulling this garbage. He said what he said and that’s final. I didn’t spin it any other way. The only one actually getting worked up over this is you. The article is plain in plain through of what was said, and he said what he said, which is EXACTLY what I wrote. No, he didn’t say “all critics,” but anyone with an IQ over 80 can perfectly infer that “people,” “gamers,” and then making broad generalizations to a group of people can see he is talking to “all critics.” If you retained a shred of logic you’d see that, but you don’t because you have this personal crusade against me. To that I say get in line; I already have quite the little fan club of the people who’ve I’ve pissed off because all I’ve done is report things Flagship would censor in a heartbeat on their forums.
Seriously, you’re a hopeless case. You think I was comparing him to a serial killer or a mass murderer; I was comparing him to someone who does something atrocious in the given community he is found in and yet their friends give him a pat on the back and say, “Hey, that’s you buddy. Keep on trucking.” It’s SUICIDE to insult your gamers, your CUSTOMERS when you’re an employee to a gaming company. It’s like running out in the middle of the field and asking to be shot in the face. That was the comparison, one you obviously failed to connect, just like you fail to connect something as small and little as a headline when compared to the ENTIRE article. So keep on reaching.
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ZeroSugar replied on June 9, 2008
Why do you insist on calling me Aurien?? Should i be honored here or offended.
ZeroSugar replied on June 9, 2008
You know how you can tell who is getting worked up and who isn’t?..they start adding insults to their replies. Some of your posters speak well for their case and cause in a mature and intelligent manner. I fail to see that from you at all. Your recent comments hurt your site more than they benefit you. The only thing you have shown tonight is that you like to exaggerate your points and use insults to bring your point across. this is somebody who is suppose to bring us news? You sound more and more like somebody pissed off they got banned from a forum and created this in retaliation. I will let you have the last word. I thought this site was legit
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Wolfetone replied on June 9, 2008
There is no way out of this time Agamemnon, he clearly references Flagshipped in the insult, he does not say “Flagship fans” or “Flagship customers” he means people like you, and me now probably since I am now affiliated with the site somewhat, but I don’t care what the jerk off says, because he’s just a CM, and considering the way he treats folks (Banning Spetsnaz WOW) he probably won’t get any where either so you don’t have to worry.
If you want to see some real piss ant CMs and volunteer moderators go check out the Valve forums. Holy shit.
Here’s another thing too, the 1.3 eating items story, and I’ll say it again damn it, this is why I don’t like this site you blow shit to huge porportions with hyperbole. I can understand you’re all pissed as hell but come on, saying “1.3 is eating items!”
Hell if I had a nickel for every item I lost due to a patch screw up or disconnect in D2 I would be a millionaire by now. That sort of shit just happens in games that wasn’t something out of the ordinary.
Also inserting your own opinions in to every article of yours is not being unbiased especially if they’re just an exagerration.
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Agamemnon replied on June 9, 2008
Are you quite done now? There is nothing to “escape.” I see nothing but people hounding on something extremely small and then blowing it out of proportions. People WERE losing items in 1.3. How blind are you? How blind are the lot of you, actually? You think we’re up to patch 1.3d just for kicks?
There is no “unbias.” You kids will understand that one day if or when you get to college. Until then I suggest to open your mind and your ears to something other than your own opinion.
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Wolfetone replied on June 9, 2008
Us kids? Last time I checked, you’re a nineteen year old from Fort Lauderdale, Florida with an angry attitude towards people on the internet who disgree with you.
Your right, there is no unbias in the world, since everyone is biased in some way, but there are many different levels of being biased, and you’re on the extreme level in being biased and that’s why your article fails.
“The site is legit. Get off your high horse. I stand by what I said. Now kindly get over it.”
Then your so full of yourself there is no turning back, now I get to watch two trainwrecks, the Flagship Studios trainwreck, and the Agamemnon train wreck.
Agamemnon replied on June 9, 2008
The site is legit. Get off your high horse. I stand by what I said. Now kindly get over it.
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