You Got Flagshipped
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FSS Senior Developer speaks out
- June
- 5
4:12 pm Hellgate London
Not sure how we missed this before….but its very newsworthy. Heads up to Phil for finding it…he would have posted it but I think the heats getting to him. Anyway….Guy Somberg audio and gameplay programmer and self proclaimed senior developer on Hellgate writes in his blog about how Hellgate is a”not a huge success”, people are quitting FSS “in droves” and the term Flagshipped really makes him sad. Here is the blog article in full, I’m going to post the whole thing because I don’t think it will be up long after it hits our website… with a link to the blog to follow…get it while its hot
Work is depressing right now. Never mind the fact that Hellgate isn’t as popular as anybody had hoped. Never mind the fact that there exists a term “Flagshipped,” meaning where a company basically overpromises and then screws you. Never mind the fact that the forums are totally populated by people who do nothing but complain and talk about how much the game sucks. Never mind the fact that people do the same thing in the game itself.
Yes, Hellgate is not a big success. That sucks, and it’s depressing. I’m keeping a positive attitude about it because of Korea and China. The Koreans really love the game, and the Chinese have yet to see it. I don’t know how any of these deals are structured, but I’m hinging my hopes for Hellgate’s future on the Asian market.
So why is work depressing? (Other than all of those other depressing things, that is.) The reason is that people are leaving. In droves, they’re leaving. We’ve had programmers, accountants, HR people, and artists leave. The founders are all still around, but they’ve been floating away from Hellgate to work on various other projects. The only one still actively on Hellgate is Tyler, but Tyler’s not programming anymore; he spends all of his time on management activities.
Today was our programming intern’s last day; he’s leaving the company for the world of academia to get his PhD in computer science. I also learned today that another of our programmers is leaving in a couple of months (he gave lots of notice, which is very nice of him). With him leaving, I am basically the senior developer on Hellgate. Tyler, Dave, and Peter (the founders) are the only other programmers who were around beforehand, and I was the first programming hire after that. With Dave and Peter on other projects, and Tyler basically no longer a programmer, I’m what’s left after he leaves.
Thing is, the way things are going I’m likely to be the only programmer still working on Hellgate left from the original crew. I’ve heard rumours that other programmers and artists are thinking of leaving.
I was so disturbed to learn that all of these people are leaving that I couldn’t concentrate, and I left work early, claiming illness. I don’t want to leave Flagship. I’m happy here. I like the people, I like the environment, I like the pay, I like the location… There’s so much good about it. I’m not considering leaving. It’s just overwhelming and depressing having all of these people go. Every time a programmer leaves, it’s more work for me. Every time an artist leaves, it’s less content that we can create for Hellgate in the future.
Tyler is talking about replacing our programming intern with a designer. I’m fighting against that, because we need more programmers! We can’t just put it all on me.
Bah. Listen to me whine. It could be much worse, of course. At this point, though, what I need is some fresh projects; I’m getting burned out on Hellgate.
Link to blog EDIT: Linked to google cache since the main blog entry was removed.
This explains a lot actually…the patches turning to shit, huge delays on promised content, new faces trying to struggle through code. I feel sorry for Guy, I say get out while you can my man, jump off the sinking ship like everyone else.
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80 comments
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Posted by Anonymous, on June 5th, 2008, at 4:29 pm. Well that sure is disconcerting… =/ |
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Posted by Anonymous, on June 5th, 2008, at 5:10 pm. Fanboi comment - Umm, sorry, I’m fresh out of good things to say. my comment - How disappointing, so many opportunities, so many failures and I’m one of the upbeat folks. |
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Posted by Renoturk, on June 5th, 2008, at 5:30 pm. 2 posts were made about this topic and both were deleted rapidly. They also gave me a warning for “trolling” That’s funny because this is probably the first post i’ve made that wasn’t trolling. Go go Serux. |
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Posted by HGLSUX, on June 5th, 2008, at 5:31 pm. Now there is a guy that should have been running FSS! Dude wake up and leave that fking place before it kills you. I stayed in a bad marriage because I kept hoping it would get better while all the while I kept finding new guys numbers around the house….Doh! The only people that stick it out are the ones who are too afraid to go out and stake their own claim. Again I say FK Roper and FK FSS…leave. |
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Posted by HGLSUX, on June 5th, 2008, at 5:32 pm. By the way we should all send this poor programmer $1 post his pay pall info. |
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Posted by Syl, on June 5th, 2008, at 5:34 pm. like we didn’t see it coming… |
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Posted by Sorimar, on June 5th, 2008, at 7:01 pm. The blog has now been deleted. Agamemnon replied on June 5, 2008 Yeah, the entry has now been deleted on his blog. Seriously, I have no words for the action. Something tells me his fellow “colleagues” aren’t too happy with him. I’d rather not see the first sign of a human soul be fired for expressing his feelings on the game (just like the guy from Ping0 got fired as well). Anonymous replied on June 6, 2008 Even if they aren’t, he seems to have a lot of attachment to the game so he damn well better not be fired. People with that much drive are who you need on a project like this. |
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Posted by creep, on June 5th, 2008, at 7:47 pm. Ouch looks like what alot of people predicted will happen soon. I have seen many people speculate that HGL would go under near or after patch 2.0 looks like this is turning into a reality I personally don’t hate the game as much as some of you folks and I can understand where alot of the anger comes from but I was hopping for the best for HGL to bad guess it’s time to move on. I really hope they don’t fire him just for speaking his mind but I have a feeling they will. Vortex replied on June 5, 2008 If they fire him,its actually for his benefit in the long run. He may think it seriously sucks but in in the end he will see the light =). Been there ,done that.There are no “friends” in the office,just “people you know”.Typical work politics. |
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Posted by anonymous, on June 5th, 2008, at 7:54 pm. I wonder if that post was made up since Adiss took his blog down a while ago? It’s not that big of a problem anyway. You have a disclaimer: Gapes replied on June 5, 2008 It looks like he started blogging again back in march…at least thats the first blog entry. Sure people will think we made this up. Its hard to swallow. We here at Flagshipped.com have yet to make up any news story, if we’ve got something wrong we’ve corrected and made retractions. Most things we have posted have been linked from other sources. We merely report what we find. |
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Posted by Northern24, on June 5th, 2008, at 8:45 pm. Had all my posts deleted for even mentioning this news item on the forums. Seems linking news to a community constitutes trolling nowadays. Should’ve seen that coming. Dear Northern24, You have received a warning at Hellgate: London Forums. http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?p=1047200 Reason: Please review the Forum Guidelines here: Posting inflammatory threads or replies “trolling” is a violation of the forum rules. Many of your posts have been removed - this type of behavior is not acceptable. Quote: Delete it you want. Word’s already gotten out though. Alright man, keep chasing that rainbow. I mean, the fact that the blog has links in it that are obviously written by a programmer discussing algorithms and such obviously mean it’s completely 100% faked. Also ignore the fact people are mentioned specifically by name and their job titles. Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum’s rules, which you are expected to understand and follow. All the best, This’ll most likely get me the ban hammer. It’s been a slice, creep replied on June 5, 2008 I also had alot of my posts removed mainly from the “Patch 2.0 still not out” thread telling me not to reply to troll posts lol when I wasn’t even replying to anyone in particular I was making my own post telling people to come here and read this great article. |
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Posted by anonymous, on June 5th, 2008, at 8:46 pm. Well, I hope between then and now, things have gotten better at Flagship. Thanks for the clear-up. |
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Posted by AgntSmith5150, on June 5th, 2008, at 9:40 pm. Oh my Fanboi insides knew this game was to good to be true. After reading this I’m thinking about quiting. Radio Babylon replied on June 5, 2008 holy shit… if this is the real agntsmith5150, then things have turned a corner for FSS in a big (and bad) way… to see one of the most ardent fanbois from the forum express that kind of sentiment means that there are TONS more less-fanatical peeps that dont post, or dont post often, feeling the same way… i am so filled with glee :) maybe this will be one of the rare times that a shit developer actually gets what is coming to them… Wolfetone replied on June 5, 2008 They aren’t a shit developer, Mythos is a lot of fun and far better than Hellgate, something just went horribly wrong with Hellgate somewhere along the road. Arthy replied on June 5, 2008 Aye. I think so far they have showed themselves to be mediocre in terms of development but the choices of the management leaves a lot to be desired from HG:L. Hopefully they can change that, but I’ll be rather doubtful before I buy another of their games, that is for sure. Vortex replied on June 5, 2008 Mythos will be crap as always,they region locked the entire SEA and Eastern European markets AGAIN. They just ain’t learning anything.Their management and marketing are horrible.They have no foresight whatsoever.Region locking has no place in todays gaming world Anonymous replied on June 6, 2008 Well - after its all said and done - I think it was opportunistic sleazy and nerdy in a stalker kind of way to post the blog contents to try to prove a point that another 40 people who subscribe to this website belong to. Seriously - being part of an anti game website is sick beyond belief and I do hope you all get some SERIOUS mental help. My god gamers arn’t what they used to be. Vortex replied on June 6, 2008 Its not an anti-game website. Its more like an anti-stupid-developer-management-decisions-website. Gamers ain’t what they used to be because the games themselves ain’t what they used to be.The glory days of pc gaming are long over. Radio Babylon replied on June 6, 2008 more like a “give me back my $150 you lying fraudulent sacks of shit!” site for me. getting to watch the slow-motion trainwreck is just a side benefit. the truth is, i hate dishonest bastards, i hate dishonest bastard companies, and FSS definitely qualifies. FSS doesnt deserve to continue to exist as a business entity, and i wont be happy until FSS suffers nothing less than utter financial ruin and dissolution. Anonymous replied on July 7, 2008 You really need help taiko replied on June 11, 2008 Well said. I truely do miss the old days. CS Beta was a real blast… Agamemnon replied on June 6, 2008 Gamers aren’t what they used to be? What’s that, oblivious to bad consumer decisions? Yeah, how about that. We evolve and learn that “hurrhurrhurrr I shoot demon dead in da face! Who care bout bugz lol i get to shoot demon in da face!” entertainment are for simpletons. Keep fooling yourself though, you’re still the vocal minority. Every media outlet that isn’t affiliated to Hellgate has praised how awful the game is. I guess everyone else just has to be wrong and you have to be right. /sarcasm |
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Posted by creep, on June 5th, 2008, at 10:31 pm. I’m wondering what these other projects the “founders” are working on. With the limited resources they have it seems pretty strange that they don’t have all of them working to fix or add content to HGL I guess they all know it’s doomed to fail. work_sucks replied on June 6, 2008 bake sales |
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Posted by Clayton Bigbsy, on June 5th, 2008, at 11:25 pm. If only you guys could have seen the smirk on my face when I first read his blog. |
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Posted by Vortex, on June 5th, 2008, at 11:42 pm. Karma is a bitch. They fuck an entire region in SEA and scammed us without any support.Lol at the Korean/China market.They have more FREE MMOs with much more content than HGL. Mythos ain’t going to save them.HGL 2(if ever) ain’t going too as well.FSS name is forever scarred with bad and STUPID marketing decisions that make zero fucking sense.It boggles my mind into thinking that these people actually thought they could be succeed by alienating an entire fan base. God is fair =) Anonymous replied on July 7, 2008 If you want to reference god in a blog reply… just try and have a thought first, and then don’t. You’re inane and hyperbolic comments show you have no sophistication on the matter and should really just keep reading rather attempt a ride on another blog/forum bandwagon. I.E. Take a hint and spend some time learning a few things, and then consider whether you have anything of substance to contribute to the conversation before you do. Something tells me your the kind of guy that talks a lot but says very little. Anonymous11 replied on July 7, 2008 You talk a lot but say very little. Next time you want to contribute something please think first, then remove all hyperbolic references to things you know so obviously little about, and then consider whether what you were going to say has any substance to it. |
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Posted by Panther, on June 5th, 2008, at 11:44 pm. If he’s the only programmer left working on HGL, what does that say about patch 2.0? How long is it going to get finalized? Provided that Guy didn’t already get the boot for his blog comments. If he did, he’s able to find greener pastures elsewhere at least. Project_Xii replied on June 6, 2008 You have no idea. I’ve saved this page, so I can look back on this day, since it’s always going to bring a smile to my face :) |
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Posted by Vladesch, on June 5th, 2008, at 11:52 pm. They have had their answers presented to them over and over on the forums, but either they dont listen, they are too proud to change things, or they listen too much to fanbois who oppose any change to the game. Maybe one of them is reading this, so Ill repeat, probably for the last time, what is fundamentally wrong with HGL,and some steps to correct it. You hit a wall around level 30. You have your top tier skells, and after that no more skill points considerably improve your characters power. Unlike diablo, where putting extra points in skills paid off, extra points in HGL skills give you such marginal improvements they give people no incentive. The other way you hit a wall is through the feed system. I have a couple of characters in the mid 30’s and my feeds are just about maxed out on them. This means that I cant throw extra enchants on my gear as I wont be able to wear it. Anything that is an improvement that drops off some boss, is unusable unless I remove a whole lot of other gear. Basically I’m capped, and the only way to improve is get another level which gives me a few extra points of stat feed, and nowhere near what I need to wear the gear I want. They are the 2 fundamental problems, and interestingly they are the 2 fundamental changes from how things worked on d2. You guys thought you were smart by doing it differently, but what you didnt realize is that different isn’t necessarily better. You need to ignore the Hintaga’s on the boards who claim that these are both necessary features and provide the game with balance. The people posting against these things, the numerous polls that have been taken and the people leaving in droves should tell you what the majority think of your crappy feed and skills system. The third major problem is the sub system, but I suppose you have buried yourselves in a hole to some extent on that one. As a founder (doh) I wouldnt object to a pay-for-content system where the founders didnt have to pay for future content. I dont think its too late to change that, but as said before it may not be enough to save the game at this stage. All this stuff should have been done months ago, but it may now be too late. Its such a shame because the actual guts of hellgate is a very good game. You have just chosen to spoil it with some silly ideas about game balance and been too proud to take an axe to it and admit you got it wrong. Well for what its worth I hope you guys can extract yourself from the hole you are in, as I would like to see hellgate evolve to the game is was meant to be, but I doubt that is going to happen with your current management. Vortex replied on June 6, 2008 Very well said. I think thats why alot of people are pissed and disappointed.In its core,HGL is a nice game but some of the things they added just made people go WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING? The fanbois and the arrogance of devs not listening to the more critical side of community ,in my opinion ,are 2 of but several reasons of their epic fail. |
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Posted by Gexzhell, on June 6th, 2008, at 2:04 am. I suppose they leave to play some other online game in the market now, they over marketed themself, not deserve to be positioned as one of the top developer in the world. The only successful thing they have done in Hellgate is borrowed blizzard and Diablo name. |
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Posted by anonymous, on June 6th, 2008, at 2:36 am. He posted an update to his blog… judging from it, I think he had a bad day today. |
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Posted by Mountain Man, on June 6th, 2008, at 10:00 am. Well, I always determined I’d stick it out with Hellgate: London either to watch the game receive some much needed tender-loving-care and succeed, or to watch Flagship go down in flames, though I was not sure which would be more satisfying. Turns out it’s the latter if my feelings at the moment are any indication. Given their dishonesty from the start (the “weeks ahead” in-house build) and their “screw anybody who’s not a subscriber, especially if you’re single player” mentality (Bogustus’ recent comments which echo earlier statements made by Bill Roper), I really can’t muster an ounce of sympathy for Flagship. On the downside, it looks like 1.2 is probably the last patch single player will ever see It’s also interesting to hear about Max Schaefer jumping on board with Mythos the way he has. Perhaps he’s pulling a Warren Spector who distanced himself from John Carmack’s Ion Storm and made sure his development house was known as “the *other* Ion Storm” so he wouldn’t get caught in the whirlpool of suck that followed in the wake of Daikatana. |
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Posted by Mountain Man, on June 6th, 2008, at 12:47 pm. Much to my amusement, I just encountered the following post on the official forums: “I’ll argue that this game is about to become one of the coolest online games ever to be played. As we all wait in desperation for 2.0, I salute my fellow founders with a grin. Good things are coming this way.” http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=99876 It seems that ignorance is bliss. Radio Babylon replied on June 6, 2008 never underestimate the human capacity for denial. and after (if) 2.0 comes out, and they realize its just as lame as stonehenge was, will they say to themselves “omfg it took you 8 months for THIS??” hell no. theyll just blame us (the “haters”) somehow, and pin their delusional hopes on the NEXT half-assed deadline-missing failure-in-progress. Sorimar replied on June 6, 2008 How correct you are, sadly. No matter what happens, it’s always going to be the fault of haters in their eyes. Agamemnon replied on June 6, 2008 It’s community damage control. After the Guy entry here on the site someone created a “I love Hellgate” thread. It’s designed to keep it bumped up, have fans rate the thread high, and give people the impression that everyone’s happy with the game and that the whole Guy thing didn’t happen. War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength. Sorimar replied on June 6, 2008 I was thinking the same thing, but admittedly lacked the courage to actually say so on the official forum. But that whole “I love hellgate” thread is nothing more than fanboys continuing to rush in and give cover to the devs. There was some bad news, and they circled the wagons and tripped over each other to rush in and sing their support. And I still think that people like this are the entire problem in the industry. Not only for condoning terrible and irresponsible business practices, but for actually standing up for them, and knowingly giving aid and support to those companies that do it. They ruin things for everyone else. Just a small handful of irrational fanboys end up totally invalidating (at least in FSS’s eyes) all the legitimate complaints and criticisms. It allows them to just keep on sailing like nothing is wrong at all. It sickens me. |
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Posted by Mosin, on June 6th, 2008, at 4:42 pm. I would love to see a person like this guy put out a book on exactly what took place at the company during Hellgate’s production. He could go around to other companies and be one of those ‘don’t let this happen to you’ speakers. Aerows replied on June 7, 2008 “You too could fail this hard if you…” Fill in the blanks. If there is a way to fail, FSS has pretty much developed the procedure on how to do it. They could have a whole series of talks on just the first week when it was released. h0nam replied on June 7, 2008 “Failing for Dummies” or “Flagshipping for Dummies” |
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Posted by Sweet, on June 6th, 2008, at 8:27 pm. Poor Guy. |
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Posted by ioryadragon, on June 6th, 2008, at 9:11 pm. the game design was shiet from the start, good ideea in theory, thinking that u can get those mad D2 players online, but at least do a game that is at least as good as D2, first the npc dialogues and quests were shiet, graphics and customization were nice, but that was about it. Many players played D2 because of the story, besides the intro in our game the rest was in the air, and u feel depress? you did it with your own hands. The funny thing is what you shoulded do with Hellgate, what you did with Mythos, and did pretty dam well, same recipe, a few features here and there, low investment, and there you go we have a winner, but Hellgate, u guys were drunk when u fought that this project gona help you with something? When i first played Hellgate i coudnt believe it to be honest, so swallow, of course koreans love it, they have no ideea what is a good mmog …look at their mmog they release everyday, besides a few good ones one for a few years, that never really hit market big, in our part ofcourse, most of them are shiet.. Mountain Man replied on June 6, 2008 Do the Koreans love it? I was under the impression that Hellgate tanked as badly in Korea as it did everywhere else. I remember seeing a chart somewhere that showed Hellgate: London dropping from 9th place to like 25th place in the span of a month. BryanM replied on June 6, 2008 Supposedly they require that region to have a subscription in order to play. So it floated for 30 days before crashing instead of the 10 days it took here. |
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Posted by Chris, on June 6th, 2008, at 11:11 pm. Seems the only hope of of keeping FSS from sinking will be the game Mythos and the money making project for that game. Or somehow 2.0 gets wide positive reviews not just from critics but the community as well. Sweet replied on June 6, 2008 We will see if they deliver something noteworthy unto the TC upcoming week. Cheers mates |
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Posted by Reborn, on June 6th, 2008, at 11:32 pm. If this is real, which it most likely is, then we heard it directly from a developer himself that it’s depressing. People left the company because it’s utterly depressing. It’s depressing to even look at the game box. |
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Posted by Damage control on aisle 4, damage control on aisle 4 at You Got Flagshipped, on June 11th, 2008, at 1:03 pm. […] has posted an interview of the damage control behind Guy Somberg’s blog post. Apparently Kotaku, on entirely noble intentions, proclaimed they were going to “see what was […] |
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Posted by Condor, on June 14th, 2008, at 12:40 pm. Whoever wrote the blog definitely is an insider because he got the names right. I know all the guys he’s mentioned for years having worked with them way back in the day. Tyler Wright joined Blizzard for Diablo 2 and has steadily moved up the ranks since he joined the Schaefer crew. Dave Brevik is one of the founders and the creator of the Diablo game concept and has always been the lead programmer and basically the Head Guy of the company (Condor, BlizzNorth, Flagship). Peter Hu joined Blizzard during Diablo 2 and is the one who wrote the big patches for D2. These guys are all talented at what they do so and at some point they would need to go to other projects. Usually once an online game goes live the production team moves on to other projects and the live team takes over. I think the blogger is frustrated because he hasn’t moved on to a new project. You work on a game for 3 years you get tired of it at some point. You get burned out. New projects revitalize. TPJ replied on June 21, 2008 Sorry, but the ‘Tyler’ isn’t ‘Tyler Wright’. It’s Tyler Thompson. |
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Posted by Tessera, on June 26th, 2008, at 4:39 pm. All of the problems at Flagship Studios can be nicely summed up with a single word: “Demagogy.” For those unfamiliar with the definition of that word, just Google it. It is also true that those who practice demagogy (sometimes spelled “demagoguery”) usually become so locked into that type of behavior that they are unable to give it up…. even long after it has proven to be more harmful than helpful. Roper and Brevik… this means you. |
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Posted by Anonymous11, on July 7th, 2008, at 4:30 am. I just stumbled onto this site and was very happy. My message to all of you on this idiotic site which is obviously playing you, stop searching for internet bandwagons to jump on and go out and enjoy yourself. |
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Posted by Flagship Studios Gets Flagshipped. at You Got Flagshipped, on July 11th, 2008, at 1:55 pm. […] appears Guy Somberg’s blog post was more of an omen of things to come…rather then just a “bad […] |
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Posted by The Common Sense Gamer » Flagship gone…and a reminder., on July 15th, 2008, at 2:01 pm. […] also want to remind people of this little post: Thing is, the way things are going I’m likely to be the only programmer still working on […] |
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Posted by Lostinspace, on July 18th, 2008, at 3:37 pm. Darn-it, maybe HGL proponents like myself needed to step in long ago and balance all the negativity. A number of us at my work and even my 75 year old Dad in the UK just LOVE playing HGL. Looked forward to every time there was a patch and sure-enough there was our reward for patience, some new cool feature, art, item. Wednesday nights have been HGL nights, I hook up with my US buddies and my Dad in the UK gets up extra early and logs in and we play until 2 in the morning. That’s a heck of a lot of fun! Grats on a great fun game - there’s always going to be someone complaining and sure I could pick one or two holes but on balance its a great game!!! Lets hope that the IP gets re-potted into something sustainable! Cheers |
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Posted by gpxcei, on October 22nd, 2008, at 4:53 am. zxbxznrjlgzsywkutrseclsuloruzm |
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Radio Babylon replied on June 5, 2008
from the linked interview:
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MS: We take community input very seriously. We think responsiveness to the user base has been sorely lacking in the industry, especially in the US/EU markets, and we’ve really tried to make our beta testers feel invested in the process of creating Mythos.
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i call bullshit. and if it IS true, why the fuck has this not been the case with HGL?
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Anonymous replied on June 5, 2008
It has very much been the case with Mythos. Of course, with a small design team, it’s easy to keep the focus on outside input because you don’t have masses upon masses of inside input.
The devs are quite a bit active on the Mythos forums, and have been for quite a while. It has one of the most mature, healthiest communities I’ve ever seen in online gaming.
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Anonymous replied on June 5, 2008
It has very much been the case with Mythos. Of course, with a small design team, it’s easy to keep the focus on outside input because you don’t have masses upon masses of inside input.
The devs are quite a bit active on the Mythos forums, and have been for quite a while. It has one of the most mature, healthiest communities I’ve ever seen in online gaming.
(Also…I find it very shady that the anonymous commenting has been removed…Very shady indeed.)
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Lanthanide replied on June 5, 2008
Yes, I wondered about that too. I think Max has been working on Mythos a lot for a long time (since the start of 2007 at least), and I suspect that he saw HGL was going to be a failure and so did everything he could to get himself associated with a different project internally, so that when HGL sunk he could hopefully distance himself from it.
We haven’t heard anything from Roper for a few months now and from this post it seems that Tyler is the only one with any interest in HGL any more. Looks like he is trying to hold it together for as long as he can - I wonder if they’re actually making any profit on a monthly basis at the moment. I’d throw in the towel as soon as it made a loss in any one month.
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BryanM replied on June 5, 2008
I’ve actually seen Max talking to people inside the game itself.
Mythos is very far beyond Hellgate - any outsider could see from comparing their websites alone.
Freakin’ just look at thier forums: http://forums.mythos.com
We should have some news postings on how THAT game is progressing - they’re going to implement a static overworld for it soon. An OVERWORLD. With… OTHER PLAYERS IN IT. Almost like an… MMO.
It would be nice to see them take apart almost all of Hellgate, and then put it back together in a way that doesn’t suck. (Maybe I’ll post something in the forum tonight - can’t work on something useful since my hard drive seems to have ate it.) Anything less extreme will continue the terrible word of mouth.
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Phil Hoper replied on June 5, 2008
Perhaps that’s what needs to be done and we should be gunning for. Rather than fix Hellgate: London, admit that’s impossible. Instead wait for Mythos to succeed (or fail), if success, then just make Hellgate II modeled after Mythos!
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BryanM replied on June 5, 2008
It’s not impossible is what’s so sad about it all. All they have to do is bring themselves to be bold, be fast, and take a damn hacksaw to the game.
Word of mouth will magically turn into “Hellgate doesn’t suck so much anymore, take a look at it/play it on my machine.” Then, at the first expansion, they’d get that “second review” in the mass media the fanmachines ask about time to time.
Hacksaw + gogogogogo = Teh money
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Northern24 replied on June 5, 2008
It won’t happen.
Video games are fickle, a dime a dozen. If you don’t take off right from the start it’s doomed for the bargain bin, never to return. That’s just how it is.
No amount of gutting, hacksawing, filleting, what-have-you, will work. This game is done. It’s time to move on.
BryanM replied on June 5, 2008
Like Eve Online or a crappy restaurant that turns itself around?
Apparently this genre isn’t a dime a dozen, for how starved people are for Diablo III.
Next up: Blizzard annouces DIII at the end of June, Flagship falls into a dank pit the next day.
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Anonymous replied on June 6, 2008
Bryan is exactly right. There just isn’t much else to fill the gap here. If they can somehow pick themselves back up and follow the Mythos lead then I do think it’s possible for a come back. It’s a very small chance that they’ll do this, but hey…
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Syl replied on June 6, 2008
Mythos has some good things (nice skills, diablo gameplay, etc…), but graphics suck, I don’t like the cartoonish style of WoW.
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Anonymous replied on June 6, 2008
The graphics don’t suck. The graphics are actually rather nice. You dislike the graphic style, but the graphics do not suck. I, personally, love the style of graphics Mythos has. It gives a very Western feel to the same spirit Toriyama brings forth in his monster art in the Dragon Quest series. Nothing tops a DQ Slime. Nothing.
Right now…Mythos is an okay game. It’s fun…but it gets repetitive quickly. It still needs some work, but it actually tends to get the work it needs. I must say though, I’m afraid to be too optimistic. The milk and honey of optimism went sour with Hellgate…The team certainly wants to and cares to make a good game. Their demeanor makes that clear. Just a matter of waiting.
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